Has anyone had this issue of a city wanting you to conform to a current fire code on a legal non conforming park ? I have one under contract and this issue has come up. Wondering if any others have faced it ? I know sometimes fire protection seems to “trump” grandfathered status. Im guessing the other parks in town don’t have them but have to confirm.
Sounds like if a homeowner goes to buy a house and they want you to swap from knob and tube to copper. ( ok not really ) .
Any thoughts, opinions, comments are appreciated.
The driveway turn around i think luckily might be able to be accomplished by the layout. The Hydrants though cost a bit and with the spacing ever xx feet …
A couple questions. Is it state, county fire code…or the “city” fire code? What exactly are they saying needs to change for this property to be compliant? Spacing of the homes? Fire hydrants owned by the park every 1000 feet (will your water lines even support this?).
You already alluded to this - but curious how they are enforcing this across the city or just using your reaching out as an opportunistic time to start the implementation / discrimination.
They said if there is an improvement then it must become compliant. They are calling bringing in a new home to an existing vacant space an improvement. Hopefully they will drop that but that’s as it is right now.
If the park mainlines are under 6" you will never make fire flow. Check and see what the main lines are. I doubt anyone in the whole city has hydrants every 150 ft not even new home subdivisions
We had this problem although in a different aspect, not fire safety. It took a letter to the City attorney to get the planning department to stand down. Of course this (their position) is BS but the planning department might need to be educated.
But big picture you’re better off dropping this deal unless you get compensated for figuring this out on your own. You don’t want to get on the bad side of the city planning department right from the get-go.
If you’re afraid to do any improvements, because you’re afraid of the planning department will sock it to you, then you’re going to run a terrible park.
Park lines are not 6 inch. It’s direct bill to city so we have to tap the city main for each one. I talked with one local company and depending on how long the run is from each one and city tap fee on each one if billed , probably starts at 11k per hydrant and goes up from there plus plans. So we might need at least a few of them plus driveway modifications so this can turn into a 50 k project
I had a meeting with about 8 department heads with my intentions. I think I can get over the other hurdles on this deal but this one might be worth dropping it. Thanks for the feedback. That’s the point I’m at. They checked out my other parks in the area and were pleased that I wanted to do the same here. But I’m not going to go through all that if it’s swimming up stream. I will see what next wing brings. Hopefully I can get it all worked out as it’s a nice little deal but for the park size and specifics this will be the deal breaker.
“Has anyone had this issue of a city wanting you to conform to a current fire code on a legal non-conforming park?”
“Driveway Turnaround and adding Fire Hydrants”
Before we purchased our Mobile Home Park the Previous Owner “Dedicated” a Mobile Home Space to be a “Turn-Around” for a Fire Truck.
Currently, the Mobile Home Space is still a Designated “Turn-Around” for a Fire Truck. However, we have plans to widen the end of the Street “Turn-Around” to meet the standards for a Fire Truck. Thus, freeing up the Vacant Mobile Home Lot.
As for Fire Department interactions:
Last year we had a tremendous amount of rain. As a result of this rain we developed some drainage issues on the MHP streets. The Fire Department gave us a Warning to resolve the drainage issues on one street and to remove vegetation from the other street. We spent lots of money resolving the draining issue and removed all the vegetation from the other street. The Fire Department was very kind and approved all our changes.
As for Fire Hydrants:
We only investigated installing Fire Hydrants so that we could request to have the city take over our Mobile Home Streets (requirements similar to a new subdivision). For us the cost of Fire Hydrants (& other improvements) was outside our Budget. Thus, we did not continue to pursue this avenue.
As for your requirements of Fire Hydrants every 150 Feet that seems excessive. As @PhillipMerrill wrote “…I doubt anyone in the whole city has hydrants every 150 ft not even new home subdivisions.”
Great stuff to know that others have run across similar issues and sounds a bit like luck of the draw. Looking forward to see how next week goes on this one .
Well I don’t own a park yet, I have been to two boot camps and follow this forum quite often so here is my 2 cents worth. Also I’m a retired Fire Inspector so I know most of the different Fire Codes. You don’t state which state or city this park is located so here is the information on both Model Codes.
Access Roadway; If you have a dead end roadway longer than 150’ then you should have a turnaround of some type. A Hammerhead, :“Y” or a Side drive to be maintained for fire department use and capacity of 75,000 lb. vehicle. IFC (2015 ed.) Appendix D. and NFPA-1 18.2.3.4.4
Hydrant Spacing; IFC is Average of 500’ spacing, ( Reduced to 400’ on a dead end roadway), A maximum of 250’ of travel to any hydrant from any spot on roadway. Appendix C Table C102.1
NFPA 1, 18.5.2 (1) states spacing is 600’ to closest part of building, and (2) distance can be up to, (max) 800’ for areas of single and two family dwellings. Both parts apply for 1 & 2 family dwellings.
As far as the city saying that a newer or a replacement mobile home is an improvement, this BS. As Frank has stated using the car lot ideal, just because you put a newer or replace a mobile home on a lot, it’s not an improvement, you didn’t change any of the infrastructure to the property, you are just using your permitted property.
As Jim Johnson would say, “Your mileage may vary”, and good luck. Use your new friends with the state MHP association. The rest is just BS and them squeezing you because they think they can… Remember that the park is permitted, non conforming and a new owner won’t change this. Its change of use NOT change of ownership. Get a good Municipal Fighting Lawyer on your side to help you on this overreach of the city. Again, Good Luck.
Thanks so much for the reply. Im still working on this going to confirm a position with city attorney and fire marshall and will carry over into next week. Hopefully it all works out but this is great to know. I didnt see a doc on where the 150 comes from but what you said on the dead end exceeding the 150 foot is the scenario where they want that .
Ill try and remember to update depending on how this all shakes out.