Help Expert Advice Please, Tony, Steve, Greg, all


#1

Hi, Moving to Fl and found this deal, read Tony"s book,changed our thinking.

  1. 10 mobile or SFH zoned lots in nice area in Occala Fl near GainesvillesFl. Nice subdivision in great location lots are quarter acre. Need development and improvements fees cost to county which about 15 thousand per lot.

2, Brand new SFH in same subdivision CBS perfect for us 1225 sq foot. We could live and manage property.

3, Plan is to buy 10 lots (18 availabe) develop with used mobiles or repos. Husband is experienced doing this. To develop, move, set , buy home we figure we could go 45 to 52 thousand per lot total cost per lot (offer 20 thousand a lot, 30 thousand for mobiles and improvements) Do Tonys land bank approach.

4, There are also 6 existing mobiles on quarter acres by same seller which bring in $3600 a month rental. These would be available to if we want at $360 thousnd all six, with 50 thousand down and owner hold mortgage at 8%. We are thinking of this also.

  1. So for home, 10 lots we think we can get for 340 thousand with $100,000 down and owner finance at 7 to 9 percent for 15 years (about 2600 monthly). We can handle this as that also includes us a nice convenient place to live and this is a good city so far, but am going back for 2 weeks to check out.

  2. We can develop 3 lots immediately for another $150 thousnd investment and have &600 x3 = 1800 monthly income prettyquick and piggyback from there. Basically my husband thinks that if we eventually get the 10 lots , 10 x 600= 6000 thousand monthly income that could service the debt. He thinks we would essentially have a mobile home park without mobile home park restrictions and in 10 to 15 years the property which is a prime location is developed , zoned for high best use (SFH). If we get all 18 lots someday 18 x 600 monthly = 10,400 monthly.

  3. Adavantages we think (please advise)

          A. We have nice new place to live in area where rentals are in a prime florida location.
    
    
    
          B. Even thou we have seen lower cost small crummy parks for less the potential is far less due to zoning and location on everthing in this north part of Fla that we like. So the apprecation of a developed correctly zoned lot should be far greater. Expect to leave mobiles on property for 10 -15 years and then move to higher best use once the mobiles have depreciated to no value.
    
    
    
             C. Scary part to me, total investment for home, lots, improvements would be around 700 thousand . My spouse thinks that with a cash flow of at least 6 thousand a month plus part of that price is our home and that it is great location where he wants to live. We can  handle the $100 to 125 down payment and the improvements to start on 3 lots and pay the mortgage for a year no strain.
    

What do you guys think? thank you and we like the good advice given here and elswhere for free. How nice. Theresa


#2

Well, obviously you haven’t thought this through at all . . . not. You claim experience in development, which is key to doing what you propose. If you’ve done the cashflow analysis, have access to the money to do what you need to do, and feel confident aobut it, I say jump in. You are creating equity and assets that will serve you well, adn have various exits.

The only caution I would wave is to have an open mind about the development costs; this can easily change, and by a lot. Can you get MHs of the quality you desire delivered and set for 30K? Ten of them?

Good onya - keep us posted.


#3

Thanks Steve, My husband is unsure if the 30 thousand is doable also . He has gotten two nice 24x40 repos for 12 thousand before,they were in good shape put 1400 or so into them, to move and set up mobile is 5500, Skirting and stairs around one thousand, 9300 hundred for county fees, total is around 27 thousand plus 3000 cushion for repairs , 20 thousand for lot , total investment is 52 thousand per unit, bringing in at least $7200 year perhaps $8000 @ 650 month. Then there are adult rental communities that charge 350 to 450 month for mobile lot rental. We could develop a few lots and try to rent the dirt as Lonnie says. we would have to be cheaper as we would have no amenities etc but why not, gives us another opition. thanks for your feedback and giving us your opinion. this would not be a easy thing for us to try but after this board , Lonnie and Tonys book we feel comfortable. We were going to get a really nice home on ten acre for around 400 thousand, have horses etc but if we can invest the same amount of money (if the party will work with owner finance) we can live in home for ten years , pay off most of the debt, have a postive cash flow and then cash out, move on and really retire. We are 50 and 52. See any holes in our reasoning. My husband is not concerned and really wants to do it but I am not as confident. We do not know for sure that the seller hold the mortgage for the ten lots and finance package at the price we offer. We do not think they are desperate to sell and have to decide how much to put down. That is hard for us at this point , We think 55 thousand per unit to get it ready to rent is problay realisitic. Do you think we are placing to much factor of appreciating asset? But again even if we just get the 600 monthly rental we could handle debt and live a good life. Steve, thanks for your input and we welcome any advice to those who know. Thanks so much T Therea


#4

which is Ocala run about that amount. We have 2 Fleetwood homes 1999 amd 2000 28 X 56 and 28 X 60 for 29.9K delivered and set’ We bought these for 17 and 19K respectively.

I’m doing 4 L/ Hdeals right now and in round numbers we try to keep costs under 50K. We bought four lots for 72K…with all utilities and impact fees paid…just hard money borrowed 120K to bring in 4 nice D/W homes. 20K for homes, 6.5K for breakdown and reset, 2K carpet and paint, 1K for permits. Skylines, homes of Merit, Palm Harbor homes. We will sell these for 89K Cash or 95K with financing or rent for 900 -1000 per month. Not huge margins but I like renting for a few years to recoup a portion of development costs and let appreciation make this a good deal for me.

you are welcome to see these homes and two of the L/h’s that have newer homes on them…one is almost complete. you are real real close on costs.

Maybe offer a one year Option on 9 of the lots and develop one lot to completion (paying cash)…if it all works in real life as it does on paper exercise the nine Options and keep on truckin’! Rental market is strong here, sales not so much.

I really like semi development. Just finished one with well, septic, power pole, home and it wore me out… really like pulling crappy little s/w out and moving in a nice d/w…2/3 easier for me.

This is a really nice area, isn’t it? Come see me neighbor! Have a small Park

we’ve had for a few months and we can walk thru that also…all it will cost is lunch LOL

Greg

352.216.2020


#5

thanks guys for the quick info and your input. We will be back in Gainesville area in about a month, to take care of our High Springs property. We definately are not going with the ten acres as the money put toward a real cash flowing investment will be better and makes more sense for us now. The board and the books opened our eyes to the opportunity available. Hoping to go to the meeting in Al. in Nov. if at all possible.

Greg , you must be near Ocala in Marion County. We have not contacted the seller as we need to check out the area and the potential appreciation which is part of our plan to cash out in our early 60 s (in early 50 s) now. We checked with the county zoning and the lots are zoned R4 which is mixed use which we are unsure of, but been told that allows mobiles and/or single family with the correct setbacks. We briefly went thru area and has SFH going up and older and newer mobiles. We do not want to contact the seller who is a friend of our High Springs relative until we have a serious offer if it is worthwhile. We thought the single family home for us to live in and the ten lots that we could develop would be our first shot at a total sell price of $360 thousand dollars , we would offer 100 thousand down, want seller to hold mortgage at 7 or 8 percent with 15 years. This would leave 8 lots but we are afraid of getting in to deep. Stan wants to offer 500 thousand for home, and 18 lots with 200 thousand down and finance 300 thousand for 15 years at 7percent which would be around $2700 monthly for our personal residence and the 18 lots. We could develop 4 lots with available cash and pick up $2400 monthly rental income (4x600) if the markert in Marion would call for that . From what we know it is certainly in the ballpark. Now Stan is thinking of going for four of the developed lots which would be 4x600 another 2400 monthly amount but he wants them for 200 thousand for a total of 700 thousand (wow, this is big to me), with 300 of our 450 thousand available but our total rental income would be 4800 monthly within 5 to 6 months if we could get lots developed and done and we would have no personal mortgage. The numbers for us are realistic IF the seller would take the terms and it all checks out.

Greg , you mentioned the sales in the area are not that good? Do you think this would be the time to make the offer? You guys what do you think of the terms? In your experience are they realistic? In your experience would 300 thousand down on a 700 thousand price be a good “carrot” or could we go lower? We would stress the depreciating mobiles on the current lots and all the negatives but in you guys opinions is this a deal if all the above worked out? I am worried and this is above what I wanted to get into but my husband is all into it now. Greg, he thinks the middle part of Florida is going to get hot again in 2 to 3 yers when baby boomers look south to retire. Certainly we would like to take a look at your mobiles if we even think this is a serious serious consideration. We like these lots because of location, well, septic, paved roads , quarter acre size, zoning , etc. So please look at the above and give me your honest opinion. Would the land/bank method be viable in this deal. So thanks again and good


#6

try submitting multiple offers: an A offer, B offer, and C offer.

A would be an all cash price for the lot, but at a low price, in-n-out, close on Friday.

C would be a low down, owner finance combo

B is somewhere in the middle

the idea is to give the seller options, gauge what he needs/wants by which offer he nibbles at, and go from there.

Hell you might get lucky!


#7

7 miles SE of Ocala. Population 800 or so. R4 allows you to place mobiles or site built homes on the property. Setbacks are usually 25 front 10 side to side and 10 - 15 from rear of property line. sounds like a nice set of properties.

I always suggest real caution to folks moving down here. Values are all over the map right now. I had a L/H appraise for 88.4 last Fall. got it back and did some fix up and that same property appraised last Friday for 76.6. Not a huge hit, but prices in some areas are falling. Some are rising.

I have a personal motto: Start small start smart. Tying the property(s) up with a well executed L/O makes sense. This allows you to do a complete L/H and see if your development costs are accurate and if the whole deal makes financial sense for you. we are talking big money here. Lots of folks get real discouraged dealing with the County, vendors, repo companies (myself included). Too often a deal makes sense on paper but when all the costs are tallied, and hours involved added up, it just doesn’t make sense.

I have done dozens of these packages, and I still go over 5-10% on every package every time. I really like the try it once approach, if it works work a MacDonalds approach (duplication).

Sales in Marion County of all residential homes is off 40-45% year to year. There has been lots of speculation here last few years. We are approaching a sustainable, long term sales base. i love L/H packages, but I will probaly cool it for a year or so…they are capital intensive and my ONLY exit strat is renting them for now…

Greg


#8

Greg, thank you so much for your advice and sharing your knowledge of the area. I agree with you about going slow and doing one development. However the seller seems to be firm about the deal with ten lots , but do not know. Stan feels that the new home that is bank appraised at 160 thousand plus the ten lots all for 360 thousand is a good safe investment. We were going to be paying over 2 thousand a month in mortgage for property up the road . We are unsure about insurance, and other issues . We are going to go online to check out the rental rates in Ocala as we know we can develop 2 lots and get mobiles on them without straining our fianance.

The seller does not seem greatly motivated and told Stan that the market was slow for sales in the area . He also told Stan that right now his guess is a 2 to 3 year period before the raw land would appreciate over the 20 thousand he is asking, but Stan thinks it is a winner if we can get owner finance on the home and the land at 9 percent for 15 years no prepay penalty. Brother in law says rental demand is good in area for under 650 monthly range. So we are going to do more research online. Try to find some comps online, but we are having problems as there not a lot of mobiles that show in this area for comparables except in an area called Palm Cay?

So thank you so much for your help and I am sure we will have more questions. Right now we do not appear to anixious and still do not have enough info to feel comfortable. We do not mind about renting the homes out for about ten years as that is our time frame,so they could appreciate we pay off loan and cash out. Stan keeps telling me baby boomers will move to Fla. no matter what. he is going to check with bank and see if there are an finance options before we push owner for finance. Hope to meet you, we are hoping to go to the Alabama meeting. Thanks Theresa


#9

live in mobiles. Plenty of comps near here. Look up the property(s) history and how much it sold for when and what it is assessed for:

http://www.pa.marion.fl.us/

This site has a link where you can actually see the Property. Very cool site. Click on TRIM notices and you can see what taxes will be next year. All you need are address, name of owner, or Parcel #.

Another great tool!

Greg


#10

Greg, went to the property appraisers site for Marion County, it is great source of information. the tax site is not up today but we got some good info off the property site. The lots are appraised for 22 thousand which is what we were told. The sales last year were from 25 thousand to 33 thousand. Stan is trying to pull up the map that goes with the site. You have really helped us - I just have to slow my husband down. We are going to try to go down again soon. Greg, what do you think of the deal if we could get seller to hold 260 thousand dollar mortgage at 7 percent for 15 years with 100 thousand down. we could handle this fairly easy even if we only developed 2 lots in a year. Do you think we might be better off trying to get the devloped lots (4 of them) that are bringing in 550 to 650 monthly. Just a thought, not even on table. Greg , awesome info and great property site , best I have seen. Will check out tax site when we can. I am so grateful I found this site, You are quite a guy helping complete strangers in a positive way, all of you on this site are great sharing your knowledge unselfishly, Thanks a million , Stan and Theresa


#11

Been following the messages here and do not know anything about the business at all. I think I might get some more information and see if it is as good as it seems knowing that nothing worthwhilce is easy. I think I would be very careful if I were going to do a deal. If I understand it right, the deal would be for 360K and you would get a new small home to live in, and ten lots that would need work to get ready to sell? or rent?. You want the seller to let you owe him 260K because you would give him 100K down? Why would they do that if they can get 5 percent interest at the bank if they can sell it . Will banks loan money on a deal like this? So if you spend thirty thousand dollars more per lot to get them read to rent you would have 50 thousand invested to get 600 hundred a month? Is that correct? So you would have to come up with another 300K to develop the ten lots you might buy. What is a land bank? You would have 500k invested on the ten lots that would earn you around 72K a year? Is that correct? Is that a good investment? What happens in ten years when you want to sell? You would have to pay off your loan? Could you sell a lot or place here and there as you go along? Steve and Greg seem to know a lot about deals and some of the other people too. I like to read when the people write about their deals. I would urge you to be very careful, to me that is a lot. Is Maron County near Orlando or further south. Do you pass it on I 95 going south? good luck .


#12

Steve, if I could buy a nice mobile in Florida for 75 thousand I would do it. So I think the lady might have a good deal . I am 60 and would love to live in Florida but do not think I could afford it when I retire.


#13

d/w mobile rents for 850-1000 here Theresa. A singlewide (almost any year)rents for 600 or 650 depending on the amount of people.

I think it is realistic to use these figures for comps.

Personally, I will always go for developed lots. given a choice between a 25K lot with well, septic, power pole, impact fee paid or a 5K raw lot, I’ll take the developed one every time, even if i have to remove a S/W at my cost…I just saved countless hours of Permit work and well, time

I would not tie up 50K for 7200 per year in income. I do tie up 50K for 10K or so in net income from rents for a few years and then sell property for 89- 95K at the end of the process (preferably with a contract at 10%). Three years ago, I could do a package like this for 38-42K. Same rents and same sales price…the “Good Old Days” I call 'em!

Any time during the rental phase i can refi and pull cash out to make this a more attractive deal (Land bank approach)…doing one right now to pay off hard money and 7.75% 20 year fixed 80% LTV mortgage. Great price for money and for 1 point, i could have gotten 6.75% interest (buydown)WOW…I am used to 5 points and 12.5 or 15% money.

There are some truly wonderful books out there to help you with this situation. Deals on Wheels is my favotite book of all times (next to the Harry Potter series LOL), another is Steve and Ernest 's book Huge Profits in Mobile Homes & Mobile Home Parks, and one I really like from Tony and Scott is Investing in Mobile Homes with Land. 2 of these books can be bought here, and if you email me I can get you directions to Tony’s Book. The beauty of all these books is these guys ACTUALLY DO these things they write about all the time. Several hundred bucks is cheap for real info!

Look me up,

Greg


#14

Sorry I didn’t get in on your question sooner but man do you get great responses. Nothing like having someone as experienced as Greg give you the exact info you need, right when you need it!

Advice is one thing but having someone who can give you area specific info is simply… priceless.

Tony


#15

Yours and Scotts book were what started my husband in this whole quest. It makes sense once you see it and it is like your nose , right in front of you. We do not want a “park” in the traditional sense but this would be 10 to 18 runits within 6 blocks of each other with a nice place for us to live in the package price, here is where we are at right now.

  1. Offer 500,000 total price for new home, 18 lots with $150,000 down and owner to hold first mortgage at 7 percent for 15 years. That would work out to $3150 a month payment. We can handle that right now with a cushion.

  2. Develop 3 lots within a year, eventually develope all 18 lots within 3 to 5 years with borrowed money including home equity againist home. Strong credit and track record (we hope). we figure we will need around 350 thousand to develop and get lots finished.

Bottom Line is 18 lots x $750 montly =$13500 monthly income for 18 quarter acre lots in Central Fla. which my husband thinks is a prime area for baby boomers to move to. $13500 x 12 months = 162000.00 year

Cost is 350,000 owner finance mortgage would be $3150 monthly at 7 percent for 15 years.

Borrow 350000@10 percent (just to use estimate) to develop lots would cost 3760 for 15 years.

Total monthly finance cost =$6950 monthly x 12months=82,800 yearly

162,000 rental income -82, 800 finance cost =79,000 postive cash flow.

Now we know taxes, maintaince , holding cost , etc all need to be figured in but even if we only cash flow even 5,000 yearly after all cost we will be o.k. as that includes our own personal “house” payment in figure. Being we would be in area to “manage” property and it would be newly developed we should be okay for the 10-12 years . My husband is strong on the appreciation of land factor as he thinks of the high best use of land that the zoning allows (take off mobiles, build SFH)

Greg, thanks for the great wealth of knowledge. What a God send having an expert on the subject that actually knows the area . The county website is awesome. You have made me feel better and Stan is really pumped up, maybe too much.

Now we have to work on taxes, insurance (Greg any input here?) associated costs, etc. All above all assumptions of course, but we are getting comfortable with numbers. Not sure about the 7 percent owner finance but thats where we start . Certainly will let you know.

All I can say is Thanks , Greg we could not buy the info you have already provided. hope we can make the Troy Al. meeting. Thank you, thank you Theresa


#16

Theresa,

I want to give you some real advice that you need to understand. Right now Florida is in the middle of one of the biggest legislative developments on property taxes. It is not uncommon for a property to change hands and the county tax assessor sprint out there and double or triple the taxes. Yes, it is that bad. Now, they are right in the middle of introducing new regulations in the house and senate that could change those practices. This is why the lease option is such a powerful tool in Florida right now as not to trigger a change of title. Keep your fingers crossed. I invest in Gainesville / Alachua county where the socialists are much more prevalent than Marion county but they still love the tax money. Just a word of advice.

Best Regards,

Eric


#17

Thanks for your input. We were going to buy property in High Spings but that is a now a no go, just too expensive as you state considering taxes and fees. If the seller takes our offer for the same amount of money we will have income producing property and a place to live. Thanks to Greg Meade who gave us some great advice and links to follow , I know what you mean about the property tax situation. In a way we hope it is in our advantage as the undevoloped land is a heavy tax burden to seller so (like us if we get the property) he needs to develop to cover the taxes. One thing I am sure affects the county where you live is the college who pay no taxes and drain a lot of resources . That is why we moved our thought to Marions County. Thanks for your help and taxes, impact fees , etc. all are hugh considerations, and why people who help here are so great. Greg, Steve, Tony and people like you help people like me look at items that we might miss . Thanks Theresa and Stan


#18

This website is awesome. I can’t tell you how much I learn just from reading these posts. Great info Greg, Tony, Steve, etc.