Flooring.....again


#1

Probably won’t pergo wet areas in mobiles anymore. Just had to repace master bath, second bath, utility room in a singlwide I own(laid less than one year ago). Even small amounts of moisture over time seem to warp and expand this flooring and with the cost of Pergo, I have done a trial of Flexitec and 12" square vinyl peel and stick to see which holds up better.

Flexitec is 16 per yard and 12’ square stick downs are about 9 per yard.

I am really thinking of using one color and pattern of 12" sq. in all rentals and buy several palletts at a time. A box costs me 18 and covers 20 square feet. My floor guy uses mastic and then sticks them and has had great luck with this.

How many times have you had to replace an entire room of vinyl when there is just a single tear from moving apps or a small burn or stain? With these squares, a putty knife to remove damaged tile, putty knife to lay a thin coat of mastic and voila repair complete.

I love laminated flooring for common areas and hallways and berber in bedrooms. I will see which covering (flexitec or squares) holds up best in “wet” areas. We have always used better quality products for sales homes versus rental homes, but with carpet and pergo going thru the roof we need to find cheaper, more durable replacements…we go thru 15 rolls of pad and 2 rolls of carpet every month in rentals alone!!! Carpet team also showed me a great application to avoid removing old vinyl (3 layers thick) and floating uneven floor. Luan (sp?), 1/4 thick and 5 per sheet and lays down fast for a great finished base…

Any other ideas out there??

Greg


#2

my sales rep at shaw has asked me in the past if lam flooring was going in wet areas…something was said about green board laminate for wet areas. it has held up well but seems too expensive @ $18 yd


#3

but most folks don’t realize the continuous small amounts of water that escape near showers or tubs (kids) and over time it has caused probs for me. The green back is over 25 per yard here without underlayment or base molding.

We also live in a naturally humid environment here in FL.

I’m very excited about this flexitec stuff…SteveWa made me aware of this product last winter and it is neat stuff.

Greg


#4

Greg look into the German imports for green board laminate, I’m currently getting it for .99 sq ft. ($8.91 yard) I still won’t put it in bathrooms and simply use cheap vinyl in the bath and laundry area, I’m not seeing much damage over all except in laundry area’s and still only replace in about 1 out of 4 move outs as you can seal with silicon if under the W/D area which is where I normally get damage as the tenant tries to drag the appliance outa the hole.

IF you decide to put laminate in wet areas it must be glued to prevent water seepage at the edges, there is a glue specifically for this purpose and is normally located near the laminate display in the bigger home improvement stores.

My vote is cheap second run vinyl, can normally get it for around $2.75/yard and replace at will when I need to… I’ve had more than one problem with sticky tiles as the water doesn’t get cleaned up and ends up in the subfloor and has resulted in several floor replacements for me. (a quick tip to prevent most damage is to cover the floor with cheap mis tint paint before putting the tiles down)

Best wishes,

Ryan Needler


#5

Greg, and all:

What about using the commercial VCT? It is durable, tile-replaceable, and cheap.

Many landlords swear by it; then again, many landlords swear by loose-lay vinyl.

Greg, the caution with flexitec in wet areas is to ensure that the sucker is water tight caulked at the walls. If water gets under the stuff, then you have rotten floor deja vu all over again.

I plan to use VCT in future rental LHs for the wet areas, laminate in the living areas, carpet in the beds -


#6

Steve, when you say “VCT” are you referring to the Vinyl tiles typically found in commercial buildings?

If so, I tried this a number of times with mobile homes and have had to go back nearly every time as the tiles crack at stress points, repair joints and any place that is not perfectly level over time (let’s face it, most of our floors either shift, settle or have water damage type replacements.

I will state that the repairs I did use vinyl tile were to homes I moved into parks. The cracking Could be caused by settling of some kind. I did find it odd that the pattern was about the same in all of these homes.

I find that cheap, ceramic tile is FAR more durable. I buy these tiles for about 78 cents a square foot or less at lowe’s and no doubt could do better at a discount floor supply place.

There was a recent discussion about this type of tile and it was asked if these tiles cracked during the moving the mobile home from one site to another. Great question.

I went back and one of the homes I bought from Ryan and Chris had ceramic tile in the bath. No cracks at all. The drywall in the bathroom had actually cracked from ceiling to floor due to torque and shift (scariest move I have stayed to witness so far. The toter at one point had ony 1 wheel firly on level ground, one was in the air and other 2 were about vertical as they tried to back into the spot on the tight mountain driveway in one of my parks).

I much prefer the ceramic tile and will begin replacing the vinyl tile with ceramic in the future. I now work to upgrade homes as they become vacant by installing laminate flooring and ceramic tile. Great POP and incredibly “landlord friendly” as I call it. Quick and easy prep for future tenant turnovers.

Tony


#7

Hey Tony, how old is your oldest ceramic tile installation, and do you use a cement board type product underneath it? Do you use anything else to stiffen the floor?

My understanding is that laying ceramic tile on a surface (such as a mobile home floor) that expands & contracts with moisture, or flexes/deflects when walked on will cause ceramic tile to pop (for obvious reasons). I’ve heard folks say ceramic tile is not for mobiles for this reason.

My first LD had an insane master bath with a bunch of popped tile in it, but the tile was laid directly onto wood which had gotten wet. We leveled and stiffened up the floor and came back with cement board and ceramic tile (props to Melinda who laid the tile). It really made the home shine & it sold for 18K despite being an '85. I am interested to see how it holds up.

I am attracted to either end of the spectrum…ceramic tile for aesthetics/durability or quick, cheap staple-down vinyl that can be ripped out and reinstalled quickly.

Andy

If so, I tried this a number of times with mobile homes and

have had to go back nearly every time as the tiles crack at

stress points, repair joints and any place that is not

perfectly level over time (let’s face it, most of our floors

either shift, settle or have water damage type replacements.

I will state that the repairs I did use vinyl tile were to

homes I moved into parks. The cracking Could be caused by

settling of some kind. I did find it odd that the pattern was

about the same in all of these homes.

I find that cheap, ceramic tile is FAR more durable. I buy

these tiles for about 78 cents a square foot or less at lowe’s

and no doubt could do better at a discount floor supply place.

There was a recent discussion about this type of tile and it

was asked if these tiles cracked during the moving the mobile

home from one site to another. Great question.

I went back and one of the homes I bought from Ryan and Chris

had ceramic tile in the bath. No cracks at all. The drywall

in the bathroom had actually cracked from ceiling to floor due

to torque and shift (scariest move I have stayed to witness so

far. The toter at one point had ony 1 wheel firly on level

ground, one was in the air and other 2 were about vertical as

they tried to back into the spot on the tight mountain driveway

in one of my parks).

I much prefer the ceramic tile and will begin replacing the

vinyl tile with ceramic in the future. I now work to upgrade

homes as they become vacant by installing laminate flooring and

ceramic tile. Great POP and incredibly “landlord friendly” as

I call it. Quick and easy prep for future tenant turnovers.

Tony


#8

Hey Ryan,

Chris mentioned that you will sometimes staple your vinyl (covering the edges with quarter round) so you can rip it out quickly and replace it.

I did this on a lonnie in a bathroom recently and it looked ok, but it wasn’t as tight looking as a glue-down installation. Is there a trick to get it to lay tighter?

Also, I assume one would want to caulk the edges of such an installation. I didn’t, but the PM bought the home so its his issue now. Also, where do you find second-run vinyl, or do you just get the cheapest stuff from Home Depot?

Cheers,

Andy


#9

Hey Andy,

I realize that most will tell me it is wrong but I have seen several investors tile directly over hardwood flooring or OSB. Yes, I undestand all the arguments regarding water damage, popping tiles etc.

Scott has done a number of these that have been fine for a couple of years but much may depend upon luck, the house, the weather, the climate you live in etc.

Cement board would certainly be the way to go but each of us has to weigh the price versus the reward. I am in the experimental stage and if I am wrong then it is me who will go out and have to fix the problem. I would not recommend this to everyone. Again, this is my personal expirement.

Tony


#10

I staple the edges as close to the wall as I can get on one side and sorta jump kick it to the other wall a bit to semi stretch it and then staple the other wall and the rest of the room. My installations would probably make a professional installer sick but it works and it covers the floor… I lay it right over the top of the old stuff after cutting out any bad spots that would punch holes in the new.

After I have the whole sheet laid I use colored caulk that matches the grout color of the vinyl as best I can get and lay an 1/8" bead and smooth it with a wet finger over the staples and to seal it to the wall hiding the imperfections from my less than perfect cutting skills. I’ve gotten away from using quarter round as I can run both baths and the kitchen for $5-10 in very short order with the caulk gun. For repairs later I can pull the caulk out with pliers and a screw driver in a few minutes and the whole sheet of flooring comes out in one piece with no scraping!

The way I use vinyl it voids any warranty and does limit the life span but by buying cheap seconds or end runs I can get it for about $2.75 /yd and it normally gets torn from use way before it would need replaced.

Best wishes,

Ryan Needler


#11

Good stuff.


#12

Interesting Tony…

I’ll look forward to hearing how the tile experiment goes. I think the risk is worth the reward if it makes sense for the specific home. I’ll share how mine holds up too. I have about 5 years to go on the note on that home.

There’s an old hand around here who’s been doing rental mobiles on land for years and years, and I think he uses ceramic tile. Not sure how long he’s been doing it, but I’ll see him next Monday and ask him how he does his, and what kind of results he gets.

Andy


#13

Tony,

Not to be a wiseacre but I really don’t like this comment at the end of your post:

“Again, this is my personal expirement.”

I think I can speak for most here in that we don’t want you to EXPIRE anytime soon… :slight_smile:


#14

My bad. Thanks for the well wishes Jad.

Tony