Due Diligence on Septic and Well Water

@carl, As per your statement:

  • “…but in Iowa and other states it is a very big issue and wells contaminated with nitrates are unsafe for human drinking water…”

I am not advocating Septic Systems and Wells.

Personally, I will not consider purchasing a MHP with Septic Systems/Well Combination.

However, what I am stating is that in South Carolina not every parcel of land has the ability to be connected to public sewer.

Thus, South Carolina has provided the ability to develop properties with the use of Septic Systems. In South Carolina there are specific laws (DHEC) concerning Septic Systems that should be followed.

As per SC DHEC Rules - (75 Feet To Private Well & 100 Feet To Public Well):
The area of the lot or plot of ground where the onsite wastewater system is to be installed shall be of sufficient size so that no part of the system will be:
(1) Within five (5) linear feet of a building, or under a driveway or parking area;
(2) Within seventy-five (75) linear feet of a private well (less than 1500 gpd sewage flow), one hundred (100) linear feet of a receptor (greater than 1500 gpd sewage flow), and within the Department’s established minimum distance from a public well;
(3) With in one hundred (100) linear feet of a public well;

I am by no means an expert in Septic Systems.

However, for Septic Systems we have received SC permits; have installed; have repaired and have removed Septic Systems in South Carolina by State Licensed Companies by following DHEC’s Rules.

It is my understanding that the expert in Septic Systems is:

Perhaps @Coach62 could further explain the “nitrates” issue?

Times are a changing and 300 feet is now the normal distance for wells from septic systems again and we are in a very rural area…We are putting in new systems and recently wells so it is not what was done in the past but working with present laws and NEW REGULATIONS My very grave concern is EPA will find a way to test (presently approved systems) but will need to be upgraded so there are NO nitrates expelled by septic systems. Our knowledge is only because we have recently put in new wells and now new septic systems. Kristin you writings indicate a very nice and caring persons–I pray the testing for nitrates will never happen on old systems but the winds are blowing in the negative direction–think GREEN ENVIRONMENT!!!

I find this conversation interesting as @carl was once a very big proponent for wells and septic for how little they could be operated on a year over year basis.

My impression is that all these changes are an upgrading of standard as our country has learned more about sanitary health and groundwater contaminants over time, and less about simply screwing everyone with existing septic installations. I think the existing operators will get screwed having to upgrade systems as they die off - but new installations will meet the new requirements and hum along meeting the new requirements.

Gas Station operators go through this all the time for their Underground Storage Tanks (and it puts them out of business in 20 year cycles due to EPA and State requirement changes - tanks must be removed and upgraded with the newer model less likely to leak and blah blah blah) - I guess it was just a matter of time before septic tanks were the next target.

Would I run because a park is on septic and well? Probably not, but I would have a plan to make sure that my system was in tip top shape and that I did absolutely everything possible to make sure the tenant usage and maintenance on them is priority so that they do not fail.

Maybe lagoons are more preferable than septic now? :wink:

Yes I was: times change and so do opinions–lagoon are being questioned in Mo and other places. and as dairy farmers learned the hard way–they need to be lined and only evaporation is used thus need less rain fall than evaporation since an outflow is a no, no! I thought jhutson was sending me some parks to look at that he passed on. The one park that is still on septic tanks has more value fortunately as a stand along commercial property than a trailer park. I spent 8 hours today working on DEQ’s NEW revised total coliform rules which entails new regulations for wells, site plan, sample sites with primacy update check list. PWS develop a written siting plan that identifies the system’s sample collection schedule and all sample sites (10 different sites) for routine and repeat monitoring, that is just a small sample for people with wells we are presently dealing with. The plan notes paper work is being overseen by regional EPA–interesting where that will lead. I totally agree with the statement keep everything involved with septic systems and also well in tip top condition–people are watching and some are just looking for ways too----!!!

  1. That was when he was trying to sell a park with well and septic. They were the best things ever until after he sold it.

  2. Absolutely not

There is a lot to this, I’ll reply when I have more time. Septics are but ONE OF MANY sources of nitrates/nitrites. Leaky well casings and farmland runoff are huge contributors. To blanket blame Septics is just wrong. What is the primary component of fertilizer? Nitrogen.

I’m quite sure this will vary across the country, but I’ve tested thousands of wells in Indiana and FL and I’ve had almost none come back with elevated nitrate/nitrate levels (they are usually tested together ).

And Kristin is right, the general standard for most of the U.S. is 100 ft distance, the older standard was 75’. Now for larger commercial systems it can be whatever the engineer specs. Those are standard residential standards.

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Agricultural use of nitrogen fertilizer is and will always be the # 1 source of nitrogen but waste water from animals or humans is #2.

Im in the drinkjng water and waste water treatment business and as coach says the amount of wells with high nitrates is low. However I can tell you where the problem areas are. Intense farm areas with shallow (less than 150ft) wells that were put in in the 1970s or older. Sometimes its the aquifer sometjmes the well seal has failed ir was never there. Nitrates can be removed from drinking water relatively easily but the point is to remove or reduce the cause.

Farm nitrogen fertilizer use is not likely to be regulated. So that means animal (diaries/feedlots) and human waste water gets the blunt of the EPA.

The septic tank and drain field system removes basicly no nitrates.

It is really not all about nitrates. The bottom line is your system will fail. The rules will become tighter.
Do you have the area in your park to replace it to the new regulations (now or in 20 years)? Do you have the cap reserves setside?

Learn, plan, save

Phillip Merrill

Coach, have you put in a New well recently that meet ALL the EPA regs-- we have put n two! Why would we be forced to use 300 feet if 100 feet was EPA NOW compliant? We live in a (so-called) backward state that we are finding the state of OK. .is not the problems but EPA is pushing the agenda. The nitrates are not cheaply removed as per some Iowa and Ohio communities are finding out and in the process cities are suing county commissioners and farmers–using field tile seems to bring the problem to a new level since excess chemicals so easily enter the watershed. Why are we forced to do nitrites/nitrates sampling of our wells if nitrates/nitrites are no problem? I am only explaining our personal experiences not some handbook or hearsay that we hear from a quote professional or expert. Just trying to explain what is happening in our neck of the woods–if that is not what YOU are experiences fantastic and gives thanks. Presently under contract parks that have city services.

Carl, I clearly said 100’ was the residential standard, I went on to say that the commercial standard can be quite different.

Nitrates are actually very easy to remove, you use a process called ion exchange, which is nothing more that a water softener with a special resin bed. Even basic water softeners will remove some of the nitrates. They use either standard salt or potassium to flush the resin bed clean, I can get into more detail of the actual operation if you want.

Phillip covered much of what I was going to say.

Carl, have you had a well test high for nitrates/nitrites? Just because it’s not common to have it elevated doesn’t mean the EPA isn’t going to justify its existence by regulating it.

Most govt backed loans require wells to be tested for lead, coliform, and nitrates/nitrites. All are easily dealt with in the vast majority of the cases.

Great discussion. One of my favorites all time on this forum. Thank you all for the information.

In light of this discussion and the recent Flint, MI water contamination disaster, we’re publishing a short article on relevant insurance coverages for park owners soon in the MHP Store Newsletter. That said, here’s a few more insurance/risk items of note:

  1. Historically, we’ve seen very few liability claims associated with septic or water system pollution. Frankly, less than I would have expected;
  2. If you have a third party inspector of your water system, they can add as a nice liability buffer if things go bad as they generally carry pollution liability coverage;
  3. water contamination coverage ("on premises product liability’) coverage is present in some park insurance packages but not in most. A key form to have in your commercial general liability policy is CG 2407 - nice to have IF your insurance company will give it -a few will but most won’t; and
  4. You can buy your own pollution liability policy but they are expensive on a per park basis - usually starting at $5,000 - so we have very few clients that buy them.

Carl, I am going under contract with a 40 space park in Richland County, Ohio which has a well and city sewer. This is my first park and after reading your input, I am getting the strong impression that I should steer clear of parks with wells due to our unpredictable EPA. The park was built in the 50’s and per the well log it shows yellow clay to 15 feet, blue clay snd gravel from 15 feet to 41 feet and yellow sandstone from 41 to 130 feet. The Seller has a man in the park test the water daily (Seller apparently trained him because the Seller became licensed through the State). In addition, the Seller tests himself twice weekly and has r an engineer test monthly. I know nothing about any of this but I am willing to learn. I live in California though and the park is in Ohio. The Seller said he would continue to test for me for a small fee since he lives in the area. I would appreciate your thoughts and anyone else’s. i am thinking perhaps I should steer clear of parks with private utilities. Thanks, Shelly

Yup. Steer clear. Way clear. And being 2,000 miles away is another thing to avoid. And you’ll have a much harder time selling the park.

Run.

It is all about risk/reward. The challenge is understanding the risk and this comes from educating yourself on the operational and regulatory side of the water or sewer business. Once you have a decent knowledge base four things will make any private utility park thrive or fail: proper due diligence pre-purchase, proper purchase price, proper daily operations, proper compliance, and being well capitalized to handle any equipment failure or regulatory changes. I believe that the risk of having wells or a sewer system in a park can be understood and can be as profitable or more profitable than parks with city water and sewer. Because of this belief I have invested significant amounts of time helping people out pre-purchase and post purchase. Check out the resources we have put on our website

I have a standing offer to a free phone call to help park owners or purchasers outwith the diligence or operations of their utilities.

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This DD list is stellar Phillip, thanks!

Are you able to give a ballpark estimate of reasonable cost ranges to operate a well and/or septic based on the amount of usage/size?

For a Ball park nonbinding estimate :wink: I would need to know the following. The more you have the better the ball park

Well water system

of wells size and deepth

Well Pump info would be great
Booster pump info would be great

of home served

of gallons pumped

Any treatment being done (chlorination, Ph, iron…)
Who is operating it day to day (manager, contract operator…)
What state it is in

Septic… tank and drain field
Number of tanks
Homes per tank
Pressure or gravity style system

Other wastewater such as sand filter, lagoon, package plant could be worked up as well but have huge variability and need to be looked at on a case by case basis

I will have an onsite as well as an offsite manager so does the distance really matter?

Yes distance can matter. It sounds from your description that there is only 1 well. Mechanical electrical components will fail. Lack of redundancy turns a minor issue into a now emergency. If you have redundancy and competent onsite and off-site management the distance is not as big of a deal. I run a repair company for wells and pumps as well as complete management for multiple water systems and sewer systems. 99 percent of “emergencies” happen after hours, on weekends or in the middle of a storm. In November I had a mainline break and had 33 homes out of water had to due the repair in between lightning and thunder storms. Yesterday replaced a blower motor for aeration on a package plant 17 degree weather 18" of snow. Package plant was starting to freeze into a poopsicle. I’m not complaining nor am I always the one out doing the repairs in the crazy weather. My point is stuff breaks if you have redundancy it may not turn into a now emergency. Knowing which water or sewer systems will be a contenual headache and staying away will make you have less gray hair

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I’m not saying don’t buy the park I’m saying know what your getting yourself into. City utilities will be less drama on the supply side but you still have mainline leaks in the distribution system.

Certainly city utilities are preferred but i would not walk away from a good opportunity with a well or septic. It is important to do your due diligence on them just as you do for all the other components of the park. Just remember that everything is local, some places are easy to work with others are almost impossible. I would start with the County or City Environmental Health dept.

As previously mentioned they can be expensive to replace and many times “fixing” them is not an option due to regulations. I had a small section in a park that we just finished replacing for 13 units and the all in cost will end up around $9000 per unit. Fortunately i expected this when negotiating the park purchase. That section should give me 30 years of very little issues. Again, i would prefer city services but you can make money with Septic and Wells in the right situation.

Thank you for your input. It really helps a lot as I am being pulled in two directions.

Carl,

Do you happen to know if Ohio requires the nitrate reducing system?

Thank you!